I believe that I heard in one on your segments that Access will not run on Apple products. I am currently taking the Access training with the intention of developing a donor/customer/grant DB for a non-profit organization to which I am a board member. I found out recently that other members of our board that would want to utilize the db use Apple Macs. I'm at a crossroad now on whether to continue development if my efforts will not be useful to Apple users. A quick search online seemed to indicate that there are work arounds, but I'm not sure my users would be willing to jump through hoops. Is there a way for Apple users to interface with the Forms and Reports that I develop?
Yonatan Weinberg
@Reply 2 years ago
Why don't you use Access Database Cloud?
I think that should work.
Unless these other people are on your local area network then they will need some way to access your database in which case your best option will be to use Access Database Cloud, as Yonatan suggested. You can set it up and give each one of them their own logon and even on their Macs it will work just fine.
Ed DonnellyOP
@Reply 2 years ago
Thanks for the information. I will investigate Access Cloud. I was very disappointed when I realized some of my users would not be able to take advantage of what I planed on developing for our organization. Hopefully I will be able to continue the db project.
Thanks again.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
Access Database Cloud is quite expensive, because it charges per-user, per-month fees. If you have lots of users, your monthly charge will go through the roof. 25 users will cost $1000 a month, just to give you an idea. And what if this service goes out of business, since this is such a niche service? The money you spend on this should be spent on developing a truly cross-platform app that doesn't rely on any one company staying in business, such as a web app. The web uses industry standard protocols that never "go out of business."
Since you are still at the planning stage, consider developing a web app that is cross-platform. Web browsers exist in practically all devices: Mac, mobile, PC, Linux, even game consoles, etc. So if your app runs on a browser, you will never worry about incompatible platforms.
I migrated from Access to the web about 20 years ago in my old job precisely due to this reason. Back then the Internet wasn't fully dominant, but I still saw the writing on the wall. If even one user isn't on Windows or Access, you are SOL if your app completely relies on Access.
Richard has some web-related courses on this site, but they are from long ago and don't cover the latest topics.
You need primarily two software to develop web apps: Visual Studio and SQL Server, and both have free versions. You also need Internet domains, web-hosting, SSL certificates for your web site, and those cost $100-200 a year.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
Access Database Cloud is for people who must stay on Access and don't have any other options. But you DO have options, since you haven't invested in anything yet. Invest in something that is actually for long-term, cross-platform support.
Since Ed is a beginner, I offered him the easiest beginner option. Yes ADC costs more, but it's the least difficult to set up. I prefer using SQL Server and ASP web pages myself, but that requires a lot more work and knowledge. The choice, of course, is yours.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
But nothing is easy, not even Access. Is VBA necessarily easier than VBScript? Not sure about that. ADC is really a last resort for people who are "stuck with" Access, usually for legacy apps they can't get rid of. Nobody is going to learn Access just to use ADC. You learn whatever that will serve you the best for your jobs. And Access is decidedly not the right tool for online cross-platform usages.
I disagree because there are some people out there who know how to build Access databases, need to share their data with a small team, and don't necessarily want to be involved with setting up a cloud-based solution. Access Database Cloud is a good solution for that. If you're a company on a tight budget, then it may not be something you'd consider because yes, it is more expensive. However if cost isn't a concern, then it is a very good solution. I've set many people up with it, and I can tell you firsthand that it works very well for that situation.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
And those people you mention are "stuck with" Access which is exactly my point. Name me a person who has the options of using web app and Access/ADC and chooses to use Access/ADC. That person doesn't exist. The OP is just starting to learn, so he isn't stuck with anything. Instead of Access, he could just learn ASP and VBScript, which I said isn't necessarily harder.
I wouldn't use the term "stuck with." Some people don't WANT to learn more than just Access. I've worked with many professionals, doctors, lawyers, etc. who enjoy making simple Access databases, contact managers, etc. for themselves and their team, but don't WANT to learn ASP, VBScript, etc. They just want something nice and simple that they can then share. And for them, ADC makes a good solution. They're not stuck. They choose simplicity. I like to give people a variety of options, and this is just one of them.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
You are not exactly a consultant here, but a teacher. Telling them the "easy" ways to do things is not exactly what a teacher does. And it's unlikely they'll always have easy ways to do things. Eventually they'll need to be taught the hard ways -- by a teacher.
I am here to teach people at all skill levels. Some people only want the basics. Some people want advanced VBA development. Not everyone wants the same thing. If they want a nice, easy, simple solution, that's what they can learn. Not everyone wants to be a developer.
It's perfectly fine for someone to learn just enough Access to build a database to run their small business and leave it at that. IF THEY WANT to learn the more difficult stuff, then I'm here to teach them... but not everyone wants to go that far. I get emails from people all the time that say things like "I'm outgrowing Excel. I know Access is the right next step. I don't want to be a developer, but I want to be able to track customers, contacts, invoices, etc."
And if someone wants to then share that simple database they built with Access with a few other people and they don't WANT to learn programming, SQL Server, etc. then ADC is a viable solution for them. Over the years I've talked to THOUSANDS of people in this situation.
It's like answering questions here in the Forums. I try to provide an answer at their skill level. Sometimes coming up with a NON-programming answer is more difficult than a few lines of VBA code. LOL. Do I want them to learn VBA? Of course! Do they want to learn VBA? Not always.
Right tool for the job. Square peg, round hole. All that stuff.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
Sometimes there are just no easy ways to do things (if only life were so simple). But of course everyone wants the easy ways, and assumes there is always one. They wouldn't have to ability to know what's easy or not easy if they lacked the basic knowledge of the subject at hand. That's when a teacher should come in. You need to be a teacher first, then consultant.
Database is not for "all skill levels" as you put it. I know you meant the skill levels within Access development. But just so that your comment won't be misconstrued, database actually requires a pretty high level of knowledge, I would say college sophomore level. That's because you need some freshman programming knowlege before you can learn database. The most basic topics in database -- data types, operators, logic, etc. -- all come from the programming courses before.
Yonatan Weinberg
@Reply 2 years ago
Just tell me if maybe I misunderstood anything that Ed wrote in the beginning.
"Is there a way for Apple users to interface with the Forms and Reports that I develop?"
He also seemed to know already that there are more complicated work arounds & that Access doesn't really work on MAC.
So basically all Richard & I did was simply answer his question, I don't think he was asking for a solution aside for Access.
Kevin Yip
@Reply 2 years ago
We both tried to answer his question, but with opposite opinions. ADC is just a band-aid solution. If it's used temporarily, it may be fine. If you need a long-term solution, you need to look elsewhere.
The prices of these remote desktop software have gone insane the past number of years. Services like LogMeIn and GoToMyPC used to be free, but now they have insane enterprise-level pricing of $400 a year or more per user, similar to ADC's pricing.
You're good, Yonatan. I agree that's the EASIEST way to set up an Access database online so Apple users (any users) can work with it. Kevin and I just have a difference of opinions, that's all. I'm perfectly fine with Access Database Cloud as a solution for those who neither want nor need a more intricate solution. Does it cost more? Sure. You pay for convenience. Are there better solutions available? Sure. They are going to require more work to build and maintain. I like to show people a wide variety of options. There is no "one size fits all" for databases. I respect his opinion, but not everyone wants the "biggest and best."
As far as cost goes, if you like the ADC setup, you could always do it yourself. I personally use Google Remote Desktop to connect to my server when I'm on the road. Then it's just like I'm sitting at my office PC. You could something virtual like that very easily, and if you only need one user at a time logged on, all the better.
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