The interesting thing about law is that the courts will uphold it, until one doesn't.  I anticipate that one day, after lawyers continue to make the agreements more obfuscatory and people get conditioned to just ignoring them, a court may find that it is not reasonable to expect a customer to pay a lawyer hours to review and explain an agreement for a piece of software that the customer has already paid for.  An argument could be made that a "common man" could not read and understand a particular set of terms as provided, no matter how much time he took.  Alternatively, if the person checking the "accept" box was a minor, would it still be binding.  If I understand it correctly, the "common man" concept makes the application of law kind of a moving target based on ever-changing societal norms.

I agree with you. There really should be two levels of contracts. One version should be written for the average consumer at about an 8th-grade reading level, something short, clear, and easy to understand. The other version can be the detailed legalese for complicated business matters, where lawyers are expected to get involved.

The problem today is that companies bury us in 30,000-word software agreements that require a law degree to decipher. That doesn't protect consumers, and honestly, it doesn't protect the company either because nobody is actually reading them. Keeping things simple for everyday users would go a long way toward fairness and transparency.

Again, that's one of the reasons I made the "no BS" version at the top of my Terms page.

I couldn't agree more with that idea.  Also, many of the places we have agreements, they are not needed.  Just send me a bill, due May 31, for June cell service.  If pay, I have service and if I don't pay, I don't have service.  That is all the agreement that is needed.  Fyi, Mint mobile works like this.

Part of the reason no one reads the EULA is because the alternative (not using the product) is not really an option. If you want a cell phone, you're going to agree to one of those long vague agreements. Otherwise, no cell phone. How many products would you not buy or services would you not use if you disagreed with the EULA?

Although I agree most Christians have not read the Bible, we do exist. I have read ecumenical, annotated versions of the entire Bible (with Apocrypha) three times. I've also read an annotated Quran, the Te Ching, and am currently reading the Bhagavad Gita. It's funny (ironic) that I suspect most people who quote the Bible for some political purpose are likely the ones who haven't read the whole work.

And having driven in Florida and here in this retirement community known as Cape Cod, I will definitely challenge you as to who deals with the worse drivers!

Most software EULAs say the usual things: can't re-sell, can't hack, can't sue, can't pirate, can collect info.

Michael I think you nailed the core problem with EULAs. For a lot of modern products there is no real opt out. With phones you are picking an ecosystem, not just an app, and every ecosystem ships its own long agreement. Even if you switch vendors, you still end up clicking I agree somewhere else. Windows vs Linux vs Mac is a choice in theory, but in practice there are network effects, app lock-in, and hardware costs that make it a high-friction move. So yes, most people accept terms they do not love because the alternative is functionally no phone or no apps.

On the faith point, I hear you. My own experience was very different though. I was raised by Catholic grandparents, and I can guarantee you no one in my family ever sat down and read the Bible. We had one. On the coffee table. It sat there unopened. They dragged me to church a couple of times a year - Christmas, Easter, maybe Ash Wednesday - but that was about it. They made sure I went through communion, but that was the extent of it. Didn't mind the money I got from the party though. LOL.

When my grandfather passed away and I went to live with my mother. She had become a born-again Christian (the one who burned all my D&D books). She did read the Bible, but only in the sense of following whatever passages the pastor picked out for Bible study that week. That kind of cherry-picking has always bothered me. If you're going to claim the Bible as your guide, I think you need to read it in its entirety and try to understand it in the context in which it was written.

I'm not a scholar - I've never tackled it in Aramaic or Greek like some very smart people I've met - but I have read it cover to cover twice. Once as a young teenager, and again later as an adult. And like you, I've found that the people who are most eager to toss out single verses to make a political point are usually the ones who haven't read or understood the whole thing in context.

And as for drivers, I will see your Cape Cod and raise you a Florida snowbird season. My money says a chunk of your retirement daredevils are the same folks I see down here when the plates change color. LOL

Well said. Especially about what you said regarding using credit cards.

Sandra I'll admit, when I was younger and much younger, I used to look for those 0% balance transfer cards. If I had a couple of thousand dollars on one card, I'd apply for a new one and then just transfer the balance, having 0% interest for 90 days or whatever the introductory period was. But you got to be careful because once that period is up, they really whack you. Now I'm very strict. If I can't pay off the balance in full before the end of the billing cycle, I don't buy it. I'll save up and pay cash when I can. Or at least I'll save up until I have the cash to pay off the credit card by the end of the billing cycle. But better that money sit in my savings account earning 4% than me paying them 29% to pay off that purchase that I really didn't need in the first place. Obviously emergencies are one thing. If something happens and you gotta replace the roof on your house and you don't have the money then yeah you gotta put it on a credit card and deal with it and pay the interest, but everything else if you can wait then wait.

Richard So you’re saying we deal with the same drivers, just in different seasons? 😂

Richard I've got a couple of different cards that give the 0% for one year, so I have been helping my daughter out so she can get hers paid off, and when the year is up on one, I transfer it to the other one usually a 3-4% fee, but still saves her a lot. It's taken a few years, but she is almost debt free.

Michael yuuuuup

Sandra smart. And you're a good mom for doing that. I've got two cards that give you multiple months of free financing. One is a Paypal Credit card. I try to put stuff on that whenever possible. AirBNB takes it, which is nice when we travel. The second is Care Credit which is only usable for medical expenses, but still... nice to have 12 months interest free for all this damn dental surgery I've had.

Oh, and our Vet takes Care Credit, so it's good for the boys too. :)