Thanks Alex, I looked at that tip. I dont think this is going to help me get where I want to go.

Let me first say, that my goal is to get rid of the scroll bar and dead space on the continuous form.

I would think that sum of the header height and footer height, should add to (number of records*height of record). This sum should logically give me the height of the whole form but it does not.

Another unusual aspect of this is that it seems to keep space of the add record line, even though the controls are not there. The completely weird thing is, this "dead space" is only visible if there are 2 or more records on the continuous form. If there is 1 record, I can program the space out using DoCmd.MoveSize.

My goal from the beginning was to size the form based on number of records, and get rid of the scroll bar.

Now I can get the thing to just be tall enough that the scroll bar is gone, but then the dead space is there, and I dont want that either. Thanks again